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  1. #11
    r_showtris 2 shows everything that is currently rendered, and in some locations things will be culled (either naturally or with the help of your hint brushes). r_showtris 1 is less useful and doesn't show anything more than what you see without it.

    Yeah, Southern France uses a mixture of hints and vis_leafgroups.

    Here is a simple map I set up to show hints/structural: http://www.mediafire.com/file/k0xv9b...lling.pk3/file

    The bsp and map is included. Just load it as you would a single player map. Use r_showtris 2 to see what is rendered where.

    Notice that the two rooms with a door and no windows does not render at all until you open the door. This is using an areaportal brush that is placed inside the door with the same width and height as the door. It has to be inside the door though (not outside it on either the front or the back). It only works if your room is completely sealed with normal structural brushes, hence why the one with the window doesn't have one (even a hint brush on the window doesn't allow it to work either). Check the .map to see how it was placed.

  2. #12
    Oh, I re-read your post and you're saying that you don't see stuff disappear? Yeah, that's because it isn't completely sealed. If you hide details (CTRL+D) you can see that parts of the walls and floors disappear. There should be some sort of structure to contain the rooms.

  3. #13
    What I meant with the disappear part was that I could see the triangles in game and they weren't disappearing. I loaded your test cull map and think I might have a slightly better idea now on how to use the hint though.
    My one question though is in the test cull .map I saw that one side of the hint had a texture named "skip" in orange. Do I need to use this "skip" texture too? Also could you explain the texture you used in front of the small room (covered by blue area portal texture). I noticed these objects triangle's wern't visible at all until the door opened.

    Thanks
    Last edited by <T|F|B>The Shadow; 07-24-2018 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by <T|F|B>The Shadow View Post
    What I meant with the disappear part was that I could see the triangles in game and they weren't disappearing.
    Yeah, as I said it's because if you go in the editor and hide details, you'll see gaps. The compiler ignores details and only uses structural brushes as a means of creating partitions in your map. So with details hidden that shows what the compiler will see when it comes to building the visibility (or VIS) portion of your map. If a room is contained with no 'leaks' it's more likely to be hidden when you're not inside or looking directly at its entrance.

    Here are some examples:

    Take here for example: https://ibb.co/fyuOyo

    If I hide details and select the hint brush so you can easily see the gaps around the edges where the door frame is: https://ibb.co/njmE4T

    The hint brush will need 'hugging' to structural brushes with no gaps around it. I notice a lot of your hints do not cover where the detail frames are.

    There's also big holes leading to the same room: https://ibb.co/kxbgjT

    Then take the hall: https://ibb.co/bVVwJo

    You've made things detail, and rightly so, but because there aren't 'floors' underneath those details, it creates holes in the floor.

    With details hidden: https://ibb.co/j7HMjT

    Like in my first example in this thread (under stairs), you'll need to put some structural caulk there to seal it up. Always check your map with details hidden to see if you can spot holes in locations you want to hide away when not seen.

    Oh, and it may be that all your roads and outside paths etc can be marked as detail too. If they aren't used to partially block an area off, then no need for them not to be detail . You also shouldn't really be able to see triangles from street level rendered when in a large part of the sewer or vice versa, so the doors, manholes etc need covering with hints.

    Quote Originally Posted by <T|F|B>The Shadow View Post
    I loaded your test cull map and think I might have a slightly better idea now on how to use the hint though.
    My one question though is in the test cull .map I saw that one side of the hint had a texture named "skip" in orange. Do I need to use this "skip" texture too?
    I think this is optional. I thought maybe have all sides hints essentially creates a partition inside that hint wall, and many other games using similar engines tells us that only one side has to be marked. But the original designers of this game never bothered to and I've found no big difference between the two. I guess the safest option is only one side with hint, but I probably won't be pedantic enough to do that lol. The skip texture is just to tell the compiler to ignore that face.


    Quote Originally Posted by <T|F|B>The Shadow View Post
    Also could you explain the texture you used in front of the small room (covered by blue area portal texture). I noticed these objects triangle's wern't visible at all until the door opened.
    Yeah, like I said in my previous post, it works with doors. If the room is completely sealed (no hints, no holes, just doors and structural brushes all around it), then you can use the common/areaportal inside the door to seal it off completely when the door is shut. It's a great tool because it is so easy to implement. You could have several doors leading to those rooms, but as long as they are all given an areaportal it will work.

    Sorry, I know this post is long, but another tip I've found when mapping, try to keep your grid level as high as possible and consistent when building most of your map. I notice in many places you've been at grid 1 and made walls etc. You'll find it easier to keep it around 8 or 4 for most of your work and lower it here and there for trim, moving models, etc... It isn't a strict rule, but I've found it makes life much easier. Generally, I keep my grid at 4 most of the time but 8 can be better. I think many of the original maps were made whilst using grid 8 for much of it.
    Last edited by 1337Smithy; 07-25-2018 at 11:33 AM.

  5. #15
    Thank you for the explanations, I think I am getting a better idea on how to blend both the details and hint now. Sorry I missed some of the stuff in your previous posts though, sometimes things go right over my head lol

    Just curious what tool did you use to convert .bsp files to .maps? I use one called mohbsptomohmap when I need a texture or something from a campaign map that I can't find, but it doesn't always do a great job converting things neatly.

  6. #16
    Don't worry about missing stuff. I've spent years getting stuff right and to be fair I'm still learning. Another tip I learnt was to use as few brushes as possible when making an area or house or whatever. So if a wall is made of 3 pieces when it could be done with 1 then adjust it so you have fewer pieces. It'll be good for maintaining your level and it may even make it easier for the compile.

    Oh, and I use a new decompiler that has recently been released along with its source code. We're talking to the author over at https://www.x-null.net/forums/thread...urce-for-MOHAA

    He's still making adjustments. For instance, it currently can't decompile terrain (which mohbsptomohmap could), but his one leaves all the brushes intact as they were made (which mohbsptomohmap doesn't do, making it very messy), plus the new one also allows for static models and other entities like triggers etc... He's working on getting the terrain decompiled correctly.

    As he's provided the source code Visual Studio is needed to load it up and build it so you can get the .exe. However, if you've not used that software it may be a bit of a nuisance to do so I've uploaded the latest version prebuilt for you: http://www.mediafire.com/file/4vrr8n...Decompiler.rar

    Just open it up and load the Decompiler.exe

    From there you can go to File->Open and select any .bsp and it'll convert it straight away for you.

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